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Post by td on Dec 25, 2007 9:00:01 GMT -5
Merry christmas ontario................................................ ;D well, northern ontario anyways.............................................. ;D
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Post by Mary C on Dec 25, 2007 9:37:18 GMT -5
Merry Christmas TD and all who celebrate and those that don't, tolerance for those that do. Everybody needs 1 day a year to be a kid. May it be pleasant for all. And kids I hope Santa was good.
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Post by watchdog on Dec 26, 2007 4:53:53 GMT -5
All my court papers say I refuse to cooperate with CAS, I doubt I'm on the child abuse registry as I won my case but really if more people put their foot down and refused to play nice with them well I can't say I blame them. I mean really whats the worst that can happen, you'll lose your kids until 16-18. Thats there plan anyway. (Cas) so give it all ya got, play big or stay home. As for TD, no comment as I don't know all his facts, don't need cryptic answer that I wouldn't understand anyway. I was wondering what not cooperating with the CAS means? When you don't cooperate with them does that mean that they withhold your children from you? (visitation?) Do they punish you for not cooperating? and how do they do it? What do they want parents to do to consider them cooperating? Has not cooperating ever helped?
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Post by watchdog on Dec 26, 2007 4:57:49 GMT -5
Yes, Yes Mary and the forum. Merry Christmas and have a great New year. Santa's been very , very good this year.
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Post by Not coperating on Dec 26, 2007 10:11:49 GMT -5
Lets see my/their definition of not copoerating from examples of my dance with the cas. Refusal to sign medical consents. (if any Dr. has/had concerns by law I would be reported, so you don't need medical disclosure but letter from Dr. in court Refusing to stop telling my child I loved them in care without court order saying I must refrain from using that statement. (That really burned them) Refusing to discuss anything with cas pyschologist. (I felt there was little point and had taken child to Dr. that had better creditianals and who's report was complete opposite. Ie there doctor said child borderline retarded, my Dr said child high IQ and no mental disorders. Refusing to buy more clothes for child while in care bc 1 didn't need them, 2 you have em, you support them (I know it sounds like a real crappy attitude but it was 2 mos not 2 years. Refusal to give food recipes (no special diet required for heavens sake ask kids what they like to eat its called having a conversation. Refusal to sign any documents without lawyer present and still questioning it. Refusal to shut up when told by 22 year old worker and making statements like YOU should respect your elders. Not following the I am not allowed any outside support rule and always having a witness with me at all times when on cas property including friends waiting in parking lot, also refering to my witness as witness and using no personal names. (kept them guessing who's who. Researching my legal avenues myself and not listening to lawyer and refusing to follow his advice and ordering him to do what I say. (I won that day, Judge dropped case. Had I listened to lawyer I would have had indefinite supervision order. Hmmm what would they threaten me with. Things like we will have the judge order you to stop telling child you love them. My answer, ok until then _____ I love you! We will force you into mental institution. Reply you can't 1 must be a threat to themselves or others. I am neither a threat to myself or you nor have I threatened you nor am I harmful to myself. I am strongly opinionated that is not the same. (cop they brought agreed with me, he could not take me and I had witness he would have been on the bad side by geting himself investigated for proffessional misconduct. Not worth it for his careeer folder. Not allowing them to bait me to lose my temper ( they scored full points for trying my last nerve but its a game. I would have 5 or more trying. Witness helpful for moral support. Taking pictures of child with questionable bruises from care. They never threatened me with not seeing child as I requested visitation from Judge myself as they told me no. I asked Judge at first apperance after apprehension he ordered to visits a week. Enjoying telling them to court order something if they wanted it, they tried it with me I enjoye telling them order it, reverse pyschology. Refusal to pass pleasentries, how I am is irrelevant as you will write down your own answer anyway. Refusing to tell them I am taping this conversation oops! They bog you down in nonsense its up to you wether you rise to it or not. I did not use profanity with them, I did not raise my voice, most times I did not even pay attention to them, they would make statement I would answer put in it the court papers. In this manner they could get little communication with me so it made it a bit more difficult to lie and to prove the lie. They did offer to drop matter from court for long time supervision order, I refused with saying you started this in court and this is where we will finish it.
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Post by watchdog on Dec 27, 2007 6:06:50 GMT -5
not cooperating,
Unbelievable!!!!!!! You seemed to be right on it and on the ball.
My question is how did you get so smart? How did you know what to say?, and how to do it?. It seems a lot of common sense was used, but has anyone ever given you the heads up about the CAS. Most don't learn about the tricks they use until it's to late. We'll done.
If you have the time it would be great if you were to write a step by step guide on how to deal the the CAS from the first knock at the door. Even how to talk to your friends to get they're support. We'll start up a new area here just for it. Your knowledge is very valuable and would benefit others here. Thank you for posting
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Post by whatever on Dec 28, 2007 23:29:57 GMT -5
unco-operative= screwoff and go away until trial in no uncertain terms wanta play lets play...I WIN..YOU LOSE..END OF STORY REAL SIMPLE IF I CAN DO IT ANYONE CAN. Don't have to be a rocket scientist to do it
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Post by watchdog on Dec 29, 2007 6:33:09 GMT -5
Did they have your children when you told them that?. I would think they would just delay court, if they had your children. An old trick.
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Post by Uncoperative on Dec 29, 2007 13:38:49 GMT -5
I learned the hard way, I saw that the people playing nice were losing all their rights with the CAS and losing their kids so that was in my eyes a bad situation. Also things happened that I have not written down and that made little to no sense so I felt with a bit of paronia they were trying to trick or entrap me. I know bottom line severing ties is important and that is their first and foremost agenda. After I learned its $$$ driven. If they don't have our kids they cannot justify the cash or their jobs. I saw kids are not important bc they talk out of both sides of their face. My house cannot be messy but the foster home is a pig sty, I must feed high quality diet but foster parents beans and weiners is ok. No! They were holding my child hostage (in my opinion) I would not play nice with person holding my child for ransom nor would I tell them to F*** off for fear of triggering temper and them harming child but would try to trick the person and get child home. CAS does not issue ransom demands in cash values but in nonesense court orders that sometimes are almost impossible to do but they know that. Its a game run by bullies who prey on our worst fears (the safety and well being of our kids). They play on your nerves, they play with your health, they play with your cash and assetts. Now why would I co-operate with an asshole or group of assholes everything they say or write is a manipulation for their own good and from what I saw the best interest of kids and families entered nowhere into that equation. Someone wrote once the CAS is not your friend, you don't need to talk to them like they in any way care iif you are 20$ short this week on your grocery budget they don't need to know. They are like wolves in sheeps clothing. They will manipulate a simple eye strain headache into hangover brought on by chronic alcohism. This is why today, tommorow, and yesterday I am and will remain uncooperative with the CAS.
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Post by whatever on Dec 29, 2007 19:13:28 GMT -5
yes they had my children, made no difference. Just stood up to them and didn't bother playing they're games. Went straight to trial.
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Post by watchdog on Dec 30, 2007 7:28:35 GMT -5
yes they had my children, made no difference. Just stood up to them and didn't bother playing they're games. Went straight to trial. What I'm trying to figure out is, what made you decide on that course of action?. Had you seen this before and were prepared?. I would think most would be deer caught in the headlights and figure it out too late. Or was this just your first reaction and went with it?. Have you ever heard of this backfiring?. This question is for Uncoperative as well. Would you recommend this action for anyone dealing with the CAS?. Or are their exceptions?.
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Post by Uncoperative on Dec 30, 2007 12:03:49 GMT -5
I myself was unprepared and in shock. I went on gut instinct bc the affidavit for removal/apphresion was such a crock of crap (they got my name right) that I knew it was a dirty game and I was losing. Nobody told me to go the way I did, my lawyer and CAS told me to not. I figured I had nothing to lose and I was not going to be nice to people who are such liars. I mean they lie, whats to trust. I would suggest anyone fighting them to let them see you are not a pushover, an idiot or trusting with them. Remember the difference between being assertive and being aggressive, don't yell. lose your temper or let them manipulate you, never sign anything. You don't have to be overly nice, you don't have to provide extra info, you don't have to work with them. Be proffessionaly distant.
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Post by Yvonne on Jan 15, 2008 17:27:40 GMT -5
I know the associated laws & that you can make a personal request to see if your name is on the register. What I've never been able to find out is what is the associated criteria??? Do ALL persons with CAS involvement or children who are made Crown Wards inevitably end up on the CAR? To whom do you direct a written request to find out if you're on there? I know someone who should be....there should be a public service announcement to ALL women & children. He's VERY reputable with CAS but still has kids...go figure. I doubt he's on it & VERY WELL SHOULD BE. Someone's snoozing...or they'll wait til he beats someone to death. I've been harping to the CAS about him for a couple years....they tell me they know the history & are watching him. 3 active case files with HIS NAME ON IT...and he's still in a relationship with children. He's not only physically abusive & a total masogonist....he's sexually deviant & is leaning toward teenage girls...one was removed from his home. Yet CAS has not moved in to apprehend like they swore they would.....it's perverse.
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Post by Yvonne on Jan 15, 2008 17:51:19 GMT -5
can't seem to get a reply posted to individual posts.....so will do this en masse. To whomever it was that refused to cooperate with CAS, argued against everything & won....and is now advising how it's a game & they use nonsensical court orders to manipulate etc. Oh my WORD do I ever know. Being a trusting person & not knowing & going on a principle that I've done no wrong I have nothing to hide....and that's what I have a lawyer for....I was effectively screwed by the system (legal aid et al), my children inevitably made Crown Wards without access never to be seen or heard from again. My daughter is on psych meds & self-mutilates (still a wonderful girl but very depressed, morbid thoughts...glorifies death-fascination with the macabre) & is in her 7th home in 6 years. I could say sooo much...I've taken psychology...mental health courses..understand medication the law, legislation...CAS matters. I've been an advocate for years. I naively & blindly trusted the courts for fairness, objectivity, & basic civil liberty's...fairness & resolution. What I got was the UNWAVERING RIGHT NOT TO BE LISTENED TO...I've had so many judges want to dismiss before I walked into the room, telling me I'm not to be heard they shouldn't even be listening to me....even though I began in ignorance I was motivated by fear & instinct. This all felt INCREDIBLY wrong & devious. I started talking back & got shut down...I was always legally advised not to cause waves & address the judge, you speak when spoken to. The CAS could fall flat on their face, be reprimanded by the judge for an UNCONSCIONABLE amount of adjournments...one pathetic lame excuse after another & everything was A-OK by the Courts. My present lawyer couldn't make one appearance & appointed a representative & the Judge ragged endlessly basically calling him a jerk (he's not....he's a top Child Welfare lawyer in Canada). Yet I can't get the lawyer who caused this...made my children technicalties of law & indefinitely bound them-locked them in to a cycle of endless litigation etc. punished for her abhorrent negligence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's been attested to by Court Justices, lawyers & Crown Attorney's that they've never seen anything in child welfare so effectively broken down as is my matter.
Lastly....so much for being a person who believes none of what they hear & only part of what they see....who invariably questions everything...is analytical minded...innately curious..always reads the fine print; questions what i don't understand....seeks endless answers & pursues personal knowledge....I know I would have signed a contract with the devil for even the slightest of chance that I'd get my children back...though the lawyer locked this in....the Courts have the power to change it...and they refuse. It remains intact...so to speak-slight variance to one part of the Crown Wardship order....and that one dastardly lawyer....He started the chain reaction & locked this up....I'm still chasing resolution in that too. Years & years consumed by this....to reach the age of accountability. My daughter is now 14 & could come home...for years she's raged against the system. I don't want to say she's a CAS sympathizer...but there is a syndrome where eventually you become sympathetic to your captors for fear & intimidation. It's also all that you know & their may be anxiety about losing that & going into the unknown...even if it is home to mommy. She basically feels like she's such damaged good that out of love, she cannot bring herself to burden me so feels it's more appropriate for her to remain in care til she's 18 & can then go out into the world where she'll have control of her own life & can live without limits. This isn't a healthy "ideal". I think this is just the chute to disaster....thinking you can live wild & free is just a path to devastation & chaos.
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Post by watchdog on Jan 15, 2008 21:50:38 GMT -5
Yvonne,
Nice to have you here and posting. You've come to the right place. We have seen the Cas apprehend for no reason before, and not apprehend when it's totally justified. As far as the CAR I'll get back to you on that. (research)
Feel free to register, we are strict with our members privacy. Plus we will be able to send you private messages. Thanks again for posting and hope to hear more from you in the future. WD
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