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Post by REALITY on Mar 27, 2007 20:33:50 GMT -5
No end to Ontario's child tax benefit clawback
People on social assistance are still having their federal child tax benefit taken away from them by the Ontario government. The Liberals have broken yet another promise.
There appears to be some confusion over whether the federal child tax benefit clawback from Ontario social assistance cheques has been ended by the Dalton McGuinty government this week. Allow me to clear up the confusion: the clawback is still in full force.
On Thursday, Ontario Finance Minister Greg Sorbara announced a new Ontario Child Benefit for low income families. This means that in Ontario, there will be both a federal and a provincial benefit for low income families with children.
People on social assistance will continue to have the federal benefit clawed back from their welfare cheques. The new provincial benefit will not be clawed back. Ontario families who are not on social assistance will get both benefits. Ontario families on social assistance will receive the Ontario benefit (which is much smaller than the federal benefit), but the McGuinty Liberals will continue to clawback the federal child tax benefit from them.
Seems like a pretty clear and easy-to-understand policy, right?
Then why is the McGuinty government trying to confuse people by claiming that the new Ontario Child Benefit will “effectively end the current clawback of up to $122 per child per month from the National Child Benefit Supplement” according to “government officials” quoted in the Toronto Star on Friday?
The answer is simple. The Liberal government promised during the 2003 election campaign to end the child tax benefit clawback from the families who need it most desperately: social assistance recipients. As with many of their other promises, they did not follow through.
The Ontario Child Benefit is a very small but welcome addition to the social safety net in Ontario for low income families. But it's a pretty big stretch to claim, as Greg Sorbara does, that this $50 per month benefit, which doesn't even start until July of 2008, “takes children off welfare.” This July, families will receive a lump sum payment of $250 per child. For those of us with calculators at home, this works out to $20.83 per month. This, Sorbara claims, “transforms the system.” Doesn't sound all that revolutionary to me.
It does not address the fact that people on social assistance are still having their federal child tax benefit taken away from them by the Ontario government. It also does not address the fact that the McGuinty Liberals have broken yet another promise.
Don't let Dalton McGuinty or Greg Sorbara try to tell you otherwise.
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Post by REALITY on Mar 28, 2007 20:47:22 GMT -5
Budget comes with ‘best before’ date March 28, 2007
Howard Hampton Queen's Park Report
When I buy milk at the grocery store, the first thing I do is look for an expiry date. The last thing I want to find out when I open a carton and pour a glass is that the milk is sour and unfit to drink.
Today’s hard-working families should use the same cautious approach when consuming Dalton McGuinty’s latest budget.
If they do, they will prevent the painful experience of swallowing a bunch of promises that have a best before date of Oct. 11—the day after the next provincial election.
The Ontario budget unveiled last Thursday (March 22) is Dalton McGuinty’s “Don’t Believe it Budget.” It’s a litany of empty gestures and pre-election promises from a chronic promise-breaker.
After four years of Mr. McGuinty’s broken promises, everyday families know they have to take this latest list of promises with a huge grain of salt.
Even as they stand, Mr. McGuinty’s promises fail working families. Just before last Christmas, the premier gave himself a $40,000 raise virtually overnight.
Now he tells the 1.2 million Ontarians who get paid $10 or less: “You have to wait three years for some action.” He tells Ontario’s poorest children: “You have to wait five years for action.” And he tells the majority of today’s hard-working families: “There’s nothing in this for you at all.”
And that’s a shame.
Here’s what working families needed to see in last week’s budget:
Working families deserved a $10 minimum wage today, not a post-dated promise to raise it in 2010. Mr. McGuinty’s approach will just entrench poverty.
Families working for minimum wage will continue living in poverty as inflation grows.
Working families deserved real action to stop the clawback and tackle child poverty, not a promise that something may happen in five years—two elections from now.
This means more and continued hardship for low- and modest-income families. Surely, Ontario can do better.
Working families deserved real investments in family priorities like long-term care, child care, affordable housing, affordable quality education, transit, and the environment.
What did they see instead? Only one in four federal child care dollars actually going to childcare. Only one in three federal affordable housing dollars actually going to housing.
Parents and students looking at more punishing tuition fee hikes despite this government receiving hundreds of millions of federal post-secondary education dollars.
And the Nanticoke coal plant—one of Canada’s biggest polluters—still is pumping out smog and greenhouse gases.
In addition, working families deserved to see some real action to sustain Ontario’s vanishing manufacturing and forestry jobs. More than 100,000 jobs have been lost since Dalton McGuinty came to office.
For decades, Ontario’s manufacturing and forestry sector had provided good jobs, benefits, and a pension so people could retire. Today, that’s at risk and Ontario needs a plan to protect jobs.
We saw none of that in last week’s budget. All we saw was this: a budget full of election promises and little handouts that are all about politics and trying to buy votes, not about fairness for working families.
The harsh reality for today’s families is this. When you wake up tomorrow, get your kids ready for school, pack up the minivan, and go to work, not much is going to change.
There is nothing in the budget that will make your life any better. Nothing to make it more affordable. Nothing to make it any fairer. And that’s a shame.
This is a classic pre-election budget. It has lots of McGuinty promises. But we all know what happened the last time the Liberals made hundreds of promises.
And this time the promises aren’t even that good.
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Post by Dean Robinson on Mar 28, 2007 22:47:40 GMT -5
rotflmao...... You gotta love Howie's way with words. strait to the point the budget is crap and we all know this.
I cant beleive this government thinks we are that mentaly disabled, that we cant see the stupidity of this budget.
one question what promice has Dalton kept? oh I know he kept the one to give himself a raise. and he didnt make himself wait for 5 years to get it. true f**king politican.
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Post by REALITY on Mar 29, 2007 15:21:28 GMT -5
Politicians visit with Pickering kids
Mar 29, 2007 By Kristen Calis
PICKERING -- Laughing, singing, dancing, playing, shouting kids, and two MPPs. This was the scene at the EduKids Child Learning Centre in Pickering on March 26.
Scarborough East MPP and Minister of Children and Youth Services Mary Anne Chambers stopped by to visit with the kids attending the learning centre, which holds 93.
Pickering-Ajax-Uxbridge MPP Wayne Arthurs also met the kids and answered questions about the new Ontario Child Benefit the Ontario provincial government announced in the 2007 budget. The $2.1-billion investment will provide 600,000 families and 1.3 million children with yearly allotments of up to $250, beginning July 1 of this year. It will grow in subsequent years until reaching a maximum of $1,100 per child by 2011.
"Their income level will determine what (the parents) get for their kids," Ms. Chambers said. "So they have to fill out their tax forms this year."
Herb Goldsmith, owner of the learning centre, said he was impressed with the way Ms. Chambers, a mother of two sons with two granddaughters, interacted with the children.
"It's what we're looking for when we look for teachers," he said.
An active member of the child care community, Mr. Goldsmith said the new benefit is "very, very positive." He said the children attending his learning centre come from a wide range of income backgrounds, and some families will qualify for the funding.
But, he said that while this does help families in need, his greatest concern at the moment is to find room for the 1,700 children throughout Durham Region currently on the waiting list. Mr. Goldsmith said it costs parents $9,000 to 10,000 per year to send children to learning centres and the funds aren't there to make it happen.
He said while the benefit is a good plan, "really, we were hoping for more dollars to go into fee subsidies."
"We got them to loosen their purse strings," he said. "We'll see where that takes us."
Mr. Arthurs said although the average family income of his riding is "probably in the top 10-15 per cent in the country," there are still many community members who find themselves in need.
"This is going to help support those in low-income families: children both of those who find themselves in need of social assistance and those who find themselves working at marginal-employment jobs," he said.
Ms. Chambers said she's very excited about this opportunity for low-income families and that "1.3 million kids will be better off as a result of this initiative."
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litigator
Junior Member
The legal guy
Posts: 20
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Post by litigator on Mar 29, 2007 19:21:01 GMT -5
It is easy for Minister Chambers to comment on how much this new initiative will benefit under privileged kids. She doesn't have to rely on the pittance the government throws at people in need. All of the people responsible for designing these flawed plans do not have to make ends meet, they enjoy high paying jobs and having power of how much or how little you and I suffer on any given day. These meager allotments of money being offered to families are more of an insult than a benefit. Come tax season in 08 you can bet a lot of these families will end up being hurt by the little bit of extra taxable income.
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Post by REALITY on Mar 29, 2007 20:50:21 GMT -5
It has been stated that it will cost $25 million to implement this new program, in administration and mailing. It would have been more financially economic to end the claw-back, or increase the provincial contribution to the child tax benefit. It is simply an election ploy.
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Post by REALITY on Apr 2, 2007 7:09:29 GMT -5
Child benefit merely a trinket Randall Denley The Ottawa Citizen
Saturday, March 31, 2007
Budgets normally lose their media profile a day or two after their release, but Ontario's new child benefit is worth more detailed scrutiny. By making a new social welfare program the centrepiece of his budget, Premier Dalton McGuinty is making a clear statement of values. He's telling us that government's job is to provide handouts, not to encourage and reward individual effort and entrepreneurship. Just to underline the point, McGuinty dismissed tax cuts as "trinkets and baubles." Unfortunately, his big social program is pretty much in the trinket range itself. It will provide $250 per child to low-income families this year, rising to $1,100 four years from now. Despite all the rhetoric about giving children the best possible start in life, that kind of cash isn't going to lift anyone out of poverty.
After the budget, CTV Ottawa anchor Max Keeping asked McGuinty how many fewer children would be in poverty because of the program. McGuinty wisely refused to provide a figure, but if you guessed zero, you'd be pretty close to the mark.
When McGuinty came to power, a person on welfare with one child was getting $10,195. The amount should have been $11,658, but the Mike Harris Tories were clawing back the federal National Child Benefit, which was still being received in full by the working poor.
McGuinty campaigned on a promise to end this unequal treatment. As a result of his new Ontario Child Benefit (OCB), that same parent on welfare will receive $11,660 by 2011. So after eight years, the person on welfare will be $2 ahead of where they should have been in 2003.
The government says parents on welfare will ultimately get $25 million more than was originally clawed back, but that includes three small increases in the general welfare rate.
The new program broadens eligibility for child benefits so low-income families get them, too. This roughly triples the number of families getting a government cheque.
Families earning up to $20,000 will get the full benefit, but for every dollar they earn above that amount, the government will reduce their child benefit by eight cents. A family with two children will still get some benefit up to an income of $47,500.
The fundamental strategy is correct, to treat parents the same whether they are on welfare or are working poor. McGuinty put it in a rather unusual way, saying that children of working poor families were being "discriminated against" because they don't get the same kind of child benefits the people on welfare get. One would have thought their higher incomes would offset the discrimination.
Ontario already has two existing programs that pay child benefits to people on welfare and the budget says that if those people have higher benefits under the old program, they will continue to get the larger amount. One would logically conclude that the old benefits plan, while confusing, pays more. So are people on welfare ahead, or not?
The good thing is that people moving to welfare from work won't lose their child benefits. The government says this removes the disincentive to work, but not quite. People on welfare now lose 75 cents in welfare payments for every dollar they earn, after a small exemption. The government has reduced that to a 50-per-cent reduction, but it's still a powerful disincentive to take part-time minimum wage work. In effect, the welfare person only gets half the pay others would get.
For the government, the Ontario child benefit is a politically attractive solution to a tricky problem. The challenge for the McGuinty government was how to take an unmet four-year-old election promise and turn it into a shiny new program. Just saying that you were ending an unfairness for people on welfare, eight years after you promised to do so, isn't a winner. The details of the new program are nearly impossible to follow, but so much the better. Just think of it as "a bunch of money for poor families." Unfortunately, social programs that try to deliver a little money to a lot of people tend to be ineffective. The maximum $1,100 a year still leaves the single mom on welfare pathetically poor, but the government is sending money to other parents with four times the family income. Other than encouraging them to vote Liberal, what's the real benefit?
How much difference will the few hundred dollars a year per child low-income working families receive really make? Certainly far less than the premier claims. In the same CTV interview, McGuinty said this new program will enable children to go to school ready to learn and they will graduate, move into apprenticeships, university or college, get good jobs and develop into caring citizens that contribute to our economy. And all that for a maximum of $1,100 per child per year.
McGuinty says his child benefit is "a powerful economic strategy." What low-income families really need are those $20 an hour manufacturing jobs that have been disappearing at an astounding rate during the McGuinty regime. What offers low-income families the greater hope, a better job or a better handout?
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Post by Biz not logged on Apr 3, 2007 4:25:23 GMT -5
for once I would have to agree with the reporter.. Take for an example... Bell Canada a Canadian company has taken the jobs from Canadians and given the Jobs to people in India.... And I don't just mean a few... I mean hundreds of them. Many many companies are here in Canada making money off Canadians but give nothing back and employ people in India instead of giving those jobs to Canadians. Microsoft same thing.. And IBM sources to Mexico for super cheap labor...
It's disgusting that our Government allows this... But it's all about making a buck and saving a buck.... they would rather pay people very little in India then help contribute to Canada's work force...
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Post by MConn on Apr 3, 2007 5:04:24 GMT -5
As bizzi said our job sector is disapering last 2 years the company I am with is struggling we are now working 3 12 hour shifts a week for the last 2 years. but for 15 years before that I was working so much overtime I was begining to think that I was going to meet myself at the front door going to work. In other words I was putting in 70 to 80 hours a week for 15 years now the last 2 years 36 to 44.
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Post by REALITY on Apr 3, 2007 19:48:18 GMT -5
McGuinty Government Strengthening Mental Health Services
New Investments Will Help Thunder Bay Children And Youth
THUNDER BAY, ON, April 3 /CNW/ - The McGuinty government is strengthening mental health services for children and youth in Thunder Bay through new investments of more than $600,000 that enhance treatment and care in this area, Minister of Children and Youth Services Mary Anne Chambers announced today. The new funding is part of an additional $24.5 million annual investment to address gaps in local service needs and reduce wait times. "Our government is committed to providing children and youth with special needs, including mental health challenges, with the support they need to achieve their potential like other children and youth," said Chambers. "We believe it is important for children, youth and their families to access supports and services as close to home as possible. "Our government is working hard on many fronts to make a real difference for our province's most vulnerable young people and to respond sooner to their families' needs and the community's needs in a holistic approach," said Chambers. The additional $24.5 million investment will be shared among community-based organizations that provide services to children and youth with social and behavioural problems, mental health disorders and other special needs, including autism spectrum disorders (ASD), in three ways:
<< - A five per cent increase in base annual funding to child and youth mental health agencies across the province, totalling $18 million, to reduce wait times and help address cost pressures - $4.5 million in regional annual allocations to address community priorities based on the ministry's new Policy Framework for Child and Youth Mental Health, of which Northern Ontario will receive $229,000 - $2 million annually that would enable agencies to provide immediate children's mental health support when a local community is faced with an extraordinary crisis or circumstance. >>
"Today's announcement of a base increase for children's mental health agencies is very welcome news and brings much needed hope to families, agencies and communities, said Tom Walters, Executive Director of Children's Centre Thunder Bay. Many families in the District of Thunder Bay have been trying to cope with increased family pressures as a result of layoffs in our community and, as a result, demand for services at our agency has increased. This announcement will better enable us to provide them with much needed support." Through this additional funding, the government is building on its previous investments in more than 260 child and youth mental health agencies and 17 hospital-based outpatient programs. As of this year, the government will have increased funding for these services by nearly $80 million since 2003-04. "The reality is that difficult economic circumstances in Thunder Bay and north western Ontario are putting more children at risk than ever before," said Michael Gravelle, MPP for Thunder Bay - Superior North. "This increase in funding will help to reduce wait times and provide greater assistance for children desperate for help in our communities." Ontario's Budget 2007 includes additional investments that will build on and benefit children and youth with special needs and their families, including:
<< - $4 million more for Children's Treatment Centres starting this year, on top of $10 million announced in the 2006 budget, increasing the government's total annual funding to these centres by nearly $30 million since 2003-04 - Increased funding to approximately $130 million, nearly tripling the support for children with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) and their families since 2003-04, as well as supports for more teachers, therapists and coordinators - More than doubled the number of children receiving autism intervention services since 2003, resulting in more than 1,100 children receiving these services - Expanding opportunity by providing more assistance to children in lower income families through the $2.1 billion Ontario Child Benefit.
"Whether it is bullying or violence in schools, depression, anxiety or various other mental health issues, too many children face the challenges of these invisible barriers," said Bill Mauro, MPP for Thunder Bay-Atikokan. "By strengthening the community programs that support these young people, we can help more children and youth succeed in school and become healthy, productive adults."
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Post by MConn on Apr 3, 2007 20:58:40 GMT -5
As bizzi said our job sector is disappearing last 2 years the company I am with is struggling we are now working 3 12 hour shifts a week for the last 2 years. but for 15 years before that I was working so much overtime I was beginning to think that I was going to meet myself at the front door going to work. In other words I was putting in 70 to 80 hours a week for 15 years now the last 2 years 36 to 44.We had 4 continental shifts the plant was running 24 / 7 and us in the maintenance shop where always on call going in at all hours now just 2 Continentals shifts working 36 hours a week or for 3 days
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Post by REALITY on Apr 5, 2007 14:29:01 GMT -5
April 5, 2007 A morsel for all Not enough tax cuts, spending: critics By ROCHELLE SQUIRES, LEGISLATURE REPORTER
DOER: Polarized budget comments 'mean you've hit the bull's-eye with the general public.' (Brian Donogh/Sun Media)
The Doer government gave a morsel for every mouth in its 2007 budget but failed to provide a mouthful to anyone.
The province plans to spend $9.2 billion in the next fiscal year while cutting personal and property taxes by $297 million over multiple years.
"This is the eighth year we've produced meaningful tax relief and we've met or exceeded every promise we've made to Manitobans," said Finance Minister Greg Selinger after introducing his budget.
'MINUSCULE'
The middle income tax rate will fall from 13% to 12.75% in 2008 while the basic personal exemption will rise by $200 to $8,034.
Adrienne Batra, provincial director with the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, said the tax cuts are minuscule and will only save a family of five earning $75,000 a year about $30.
"That doesn't even buy you a tank of gas," she said. "They've given us little to nothing."
Every homeowner will receive an additional $125 education property tax credit, raising the credit to $525 this year.
A four-year plan to cut middle income taxes by 10% over four years was also introduced.
University of Manitoba political scientist Paul Thomas called it a measure to entice voters in a looming provincial election.
"It's partly to give voters more incentive to vote the government in," he said.
Expenditures are increasing faster than the economy is growing, Thomas added.
"This is something Selinger has not done in his previous seven budgets and that's a sign an election is coming," he said.
Tory Opposition Leader Hugh McFadyen likened the tax cuts to "crumbs for Manitoba families."
"The new spending is absolutely enormous and we know from experience that you cannot spend your way to prosperity," said McFadyen.
Premier Gary Doer said critics are rarely happy with a budget but that doesn't mean the public won't be pleased.
"I've never seen a budget where the tax cuts are enough and the spending increases aren't great enough," said Doer.
"Usually when you get comments in a polarized kind of way you've hit the bull's-eye with the general public."
NEW FUNDING
The province gave $3 million in new funding for doctors and health practitioners plus money for a new, leading-edge non-invasive cancer knife.
A new children's fitness tax credit will be implemented to help with the cost of registering kids in physical activity programs.
The budget also features a new Manitoba Child Benefit for low-income working families and an additional $48 million for child protection services.
Child-care lobbyists were unsatisfied with the $14-million provincial commitment in the budget to backfill the withdrawal of federal funding to create child care spaces.
To fund its spending, the province is relying on a hefty $3.4-billion handout from Ottawa, up more than $300 million from last year.
They also plan to receive an extra $17 million on liquor sales and $8 million more from lotteries.
Selinger said only $37 million will be taken from the rainy day fund to reduce health-care wait times.
The provincial debt grew by $420 million this year and the province will commit $110 million to reducing it.
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HIGHLIGHTS OF NDP OFFERINGS
Highlights from the 2007 budget:
- $10 million to clean up Lake Winnipeg
- A new 10% Green Energy Manufacturing Tax Credit
- Provisions for Manitoba Hydro loans of up to $20,000 to install geothermal heat pumps
- A $30.3-million increase for public schools
- A commitment to increase provincial funding for public schools to 80%
- A $2.5-million strategy to reduce sexually transmitted infections and HIV/AIDS
- A $9.5-million commitment to increase immigration
- Purchase 21 additional snowplows
- Fund 30 additional police officers and double the funding for the Manitoba Integrated Organized Crime Task Force to $800,000
- Commit $7.5 million for fetal alcohol spectrum disorder programs
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Post by REALITY on Apr 5, 2007 22:08:47 GMT -5
PREMIER DALTON MCGUINTY’S RESPONSE TO THE MARCH 19TH FEDERAL BUDGET For more than two years, my Cabinet colleagues and I have been fighting for fairness for the people of Ontario. Our focus has been on highlighting unfair federal funding practices in the areas Ontarians value most, including postsecondary education, health care, infrastructure and job training. We have called on the federal government to provide the people of Ontario with their fair share of funding for these key services. I greatly appreciate the support our campaign has received from people across the province and want to thank all of you who spoke out in favour of fairness. I appreciate the efforts of business, labour, non-profit, public sector and municipal leaders who have supported our efforts with the federal government. I appreciate the resolutions of support from organizations and municipalities across the province. And most of all, we appreciate the support of individual Ontarians from across the province who spoke out, learned about the issue and sent letters of support to their federal MPs. In the March 19 federal Budget, Ontario’s fairness campaign delivered real results for the people of Ontario. In its Budget, the federal government has committed to: * providing Ontario with equal per capita cash through the Canada Social Transfer (CST); * providing funding to honour the unmet provisions of the 2005 Canada-Ontario Agreement, an agreement that was meant to address some of Ontario’s fairness concerns; * introducing a fiscal capacity cap on payments to provinces receiving equalization, as part of reforms to the Equalization program; * providing Ontario with equal per capita funding through the federal trust for Clean Air and Climate Change and through a number of other major transfers; * new spending on Ontario’s infrastructure priorities, including public transit and the Windsor border crossing; * putting Canada’s fiscal arrangements on principled footing, including the clear commitment to the principle that federal transfers must treat Canadians equally. It was gratifying to see the federal government has committed to delivering transfers to provinces on a per capita basis, with immediate fairness in the Canada Social Transfer and many other federal transfers. This has been a key demand of our fairness campaign. These important steps toward fairness are real victories for the people of Ontario. They were made possible because we stood up for Ontario and because Ontarians across the province stood united behind our campaign. However, some of our fairness concerns remain outstanding. Although the federal government has committed to treating Ontario fairly in the Canada Health Transfer (CHT), that fairness will not be introduced immediately. Rather, the federal government expects Ontarians to wait seven more years for our fair share of health care funding. This means less money for hospitals and the important health services that keep Ontarians healthy.Personal note: isn't this exactly what the provincial budget has done to poor families with the new Ontario Child Benefit? We were also hoping for a clearer commitment on federal funding for infrastructure. Although the commitment for funding for the Windsor border crossing is a good step forward, we need more details on how the federal government will distribute infrastructure funds before we can know what this commitment means for Ontario. In addition, we remain concerned about the growth in the Equalization program. We have made real progress. The March 19 federal budget represents an important step toward fairness. However, more needs to be done. We are currently preparing a thorough analysis of the federal budget’s implications regarding our fairness concerns. We will use that to update the information on the www.fairness.ca site in the coming days. I thank you for your ongoing support as we continue to stand by our fairness principles and continue to defend Ontario’s interests in the federation. That is the only way to secure a strong and prosperous Ontario and a strong and prosperous Canada. Sincerely, Dalton McGuinty Premier of Ontario
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Post by bizzi on Apr 6, 2007 6:38:57 GMT -5
Why is it the more I read about these people who run our country the more I feel sorry for Canadians trapped in hell by their own Government. Empty promises, Poverty is enforced.....
They pretend like they care... but their actions speak louder then words....
A Government willing to let children live in poverty.... and let kids grow up in foster care with little to no futures.. then screws over hardworking Canadians.....I mean how much will you Canadians take of being taken for saps...
I mean this Government thinks so little of it's own people it's willing to lie to you, cheat you out of your money and screw you over... give themselves raises... while children live in poverty.... It saddens me that Canadians don't have a spine to say "No more"... Everything has evolved and new things to replace the old... except Government... that your still getting screwed by everyday.....
Aren't you tiered of being treated like a patsy? Aren't you tired of getting lied to and screwed out of your hard earned money?
We need a new form of Government before this one drives us completely into the ground and people start paying for it with their lives....
Oh yes I forgot to late.. people already are paying for it with their lives especially children...
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Post by bizzi on Apr 6, 2007 6:45:22 GMT -5
And what does the Government do? They tell you "we will fix it later we promise"...... But we all know better don't we? After 100 years of this B.S I would think Canadians would know a scam when they see one.... I know when I see the word 'Government' All I see is are the words bullshit, Followed by fucking lying two-faced sacks of shit.....
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